If the position is that Pope John Paul II is not morally the pope, then I tend to agree. However, he has been the legal pope since he accepted the office. The lack of formal method for the removal of a non morally qualified pope is seen as a problem and cause for grave concern.

        If it is correct that he is not morally the pope, then the position could legally be held that any document concerning faith and morals he has published is not binding in faith, except for content that is in accordance with pre existing legitimate doctrinal teaching or sound objective reason. (An unqualified person must exercise extreme care or risks loosing his soul. Few are sufficiently open to truth to be qualified to make sound determination since in reality few, with faith, have full objective love of God.)

        With this consideration it can be held that even his proclamations concerning sainthood are subject to review and possible reversal. All unjust or improper disciplinary positions made by any pope (or person in authority) may be rejected for valid reasons without opposing the will of God. This concept will be seen as valid only by those whose primary motives are not focused upon humanistic goals. — A moral (righteous) person commonly suffers when in opposition to unjust authority. However, righteous persons obtain eternal life while unjust authorities and their supporters (by act or fault) suffer eternal damnation.

        Prior non moral popes –legally but not morally qualified to take office or have otherwise clearly demonstrated they are in a condition of being under the penalty of automatic excommunication ¹ by act or culpable fault– and documents they have published or sanctioned would, even though such popes legally retain office and make legal appointments, etc., be subject to removal and/or reversal (this could include such documents, in whole or in part, as those of Vatican Council II –On January 12, 1966 Pope Paul VI in a general audience declared Vatican II is not a dogmatic or infallible council, it is only a pastoral council.– and post Vatican II associated documents).

        To take the position that there is no legal pope would turn the Church into chaos as then all legal actions would be subject to question and potential rejection. In relation to civil affairs this position is more clearly seen as being ludicrous.

        If one distinguishes between the OFFICE of Peter and the CHAIR of Peter, one being legal and the other being moral, then and only then could the position stating that the Chair of Peter is vacant be seen as viable. Proper terminology would be that the Chair of Peter is muted (silent, inactive), but not vacant. So long as there is a legal pope the Chair of Peter is occupied. A legal papacy maintains the authenticity of the Church. A moral papacy however fosters growth in the Church.

        One may never morally set up a structure that is separate from the main body of the Church. However, one might, within the context of the legal Church and under proper conditions, morally set up organizations to oppose immoral members of the hierarchy and their immoral teachings or failure to teach and discipline (See commentary concerning discipline at end of this document). Note: A sound pattern for unification of faith and action must be accepted by all participating parties before such sub group could morally (righteously) function. (A proposed pattern may be found on this linked web page ² and associated web pages.)

        It is my belief that under certain conditions there should be available various methods for removing a non moral pope⁵ –popes have the authority and obligation to remove immoral bishops,– whether this is a pre existing condition to receiving the office or subsequently occurs by reason of act or failure to act (sin of omission), in consideration of grave circumstances.

Possible future procedures for removal of a non moral pope

1. Two or more cardinals or archbishops file charges with the Roman Rota to be followed by public trial and disposition.
2. A province or region of bishops or any five or more bishops may file charges as above.
3. A group of ten or more priests may file charges through a regional or national conference of bishops. After initial determination is made by this group, should unsatisfactory results occur, demand can be made for charges to be forwarded to the Roman Rota for public trial and disposition.
4. An established lay Catholic organization of one hundred or more members may file as in the previous step.

Note:  Non-moral popes (those not morally ordained or those under automatic excommunication) do not have the protection of Canon 1370 §1 – A person who uses physical force against the Roman Pontiff incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See; if the offender is a cleric, another penalty, not excluding dismissal from the clerical state, may be added according to the gravity of the crime.
        In searching Canon Law I have found no protection against trial and judgement for a pope who has knowingly committed an act of heresy or other automatically excommunicatable offense. There is no reason to believe that this position would not apply in regard to any notorious offense against God or man. Prudence dictates that knowledge of the severity of particular offense be communicated to an offender. (Public offense requires confession, public repentance, and worthy restitution even if the offense was inadvertent .)

        Similar procedures should be established in regard to parish priests and diocesan bishops. Suitable protections and penalties should be established to guard against false claims or charges being made.

        Should the immoral condition of the top levels of the hierarchy become so notorious that the foregoing procedures are no longer deemed viable, then public outcry should be heard by all and responded to as seen necessary.

        In consideration of the Third Part of the Secret of Fatima that states, 'Penance, Penance, Penance!', it is recognized that following public acknowledgement of guilt, forgiveness might still be obtained conditioned upon appropriate restitution and notable public penance.

Related question of a priest legally and morally holding office

        The following is stated in the Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on Pastoral Service for Homosexual Persons issued on October 1, 1986 by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith signed by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger and approved by Pope John Paul II,

• "Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder." (n. 3) – underscore added

The foregoing should be understood in light of the following:

• The LORD said to Moses, "Speak to Aaron and tell him: None of your
  descendants, of whatever generation, who has any defect shall come
  forward to offer up the food of his God. [Leviticus 21:16-17] – This passage sets limits for ordination into the priesthood.

**     While this passage specifically refers to physical conditions, it should be understood to include –but would not be limited to– the following since moral disorders or inclinations thereto should be understood as being of graver concern:  adultery, fornication, transvestitism, bestiality, erotic fetish and other deviant behaviors.

        In consideration of recent public exposure concerning pedophiles (in most cases these are pederasts, i.e., active homosexuals practicing anal (or oral) intercourse with teenagers) in the Church the following passages from Scripture are referenced.

1. You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. You shall not have carnal relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; such things are abhorrent. [Leviticus 18:22-23]
2. You, however, whether natives or resident aliens, must keep my statutes and decrees forbidding all such abominations [Leviticus 18:26]
3. Everyone who does any of these abominations shall be cut off from among his people. Heed my charge, then, not to defile yourselves by observing the abominable customs that have been observed before you. I, the LORD, am your God." [Leviticus 18:29-30]
4. If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives. [Leviticus 20:13]
5. If a man has carnal relations with an animal, the man shall be put to death, and the animal shall be slain. [Leviticus 20:15]

See also:  CCL 1961 — Restriction on Homosexuals and Pederasts

**     Candidates for the priesthood who do not believe in the entirety of the Word of God ³ –the whole of Sacred Scripture– should not be considered as being morally ordainable.

**     Any act that would subject one to automatic excommunication ¹ or that would warrant the death penalty under Old Testament law (these laws were approved by Jesus [Mt. 5:18] ) should be understood to disqualify any candidate for the clerical state. Also to be seen as morally excluded from the clerical state would be those guilty of notorious crimes, infiltrators into the Church, and members of secretive organizations such as the Freemasons who are forbidden the reception of Holy Communion ⁴ under the Code of Canon Law (1983 Code: Can. 1374 [modernist Church watered down version]; 1917 Code: Can. 2335). ⁵

        Cause for automatic excommunication also exists in regard to priests who culpably fail to teach the Word of God in its fullness, especially when having been advised of the deficiency and continues to refuse to correct the fault – a clear grave sin of omission.

        Even though a man may be ordained by a legal procedure, an unqualified man would not be morally ordained.⁵ While a quasi priest legally has the authority to preside over most of the seven sacraments, he is seen as being incapable of fulfilling the moral requirement necessary for validly consecrating the Holy Eucharist. In each of the other sacraments the recipient is the one who must fulfil the moral requirement for each sacrament received. The moral condition of non celebrant recipients of the Holy Eucharist has nothing to do with the validity of the consecration. That rests solely with the ministerial priest celebrant.

Spiritual Holy Communion

"those who eating in desire the heavenly bread set before them, are by a lively faith which worketh by charity ^{Gal. 5:6} made sensible of its fruit and usefulness." [Council of Trent, 13th Session, Chap. 7]

        Those acting in faith who either unknowingly receive an unconsecrated host believing it to be consecrated, or who refrain from receiving a host known to be not consecrated by reason of the lack in moral standing of the ministerial priest who attempted consecration, receive Jesus spiritually (a spiritual Holy Communion). The spiritual good for one's soul regarding this form of reception of Jesus parallels the reception of the material reality of Jesus. The major disadvantage is that Jesus is not brought present in the community as a work of faith. While daily material reception of Jesus (direct participation with Jesus' universal offering) is always to be preferred, one should daily at least spiritually seek Jesus while in the state of grace (free form mortal sin). Sacramental confession should be made as often as necessary so that one is not unnecessarily separated from the good graces of Jesus giving devils increased opportunity for presenting temptation.

        To seek Jesus spiritually while free from mortal sin, either when no priest is reasonably available or no moral priest is available, should be desired on a daily basis for the enlightenment of one's soul. This concept is more clearly understood through proper appreciation of the segment of the Lord's Prayer that petitions, "give us this day our daily bread [Mt. 6:11; Lk. 11:3]." This should be understood in light of John 6:35, Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst."

[Daniel 8:12-26] as well as the host, while sin replaced the daily sacrifice. It cast truth to the ground, and was succeeding in its undertaking.
        I heard a holy one speaking, and another said to whichever one it was that spoke, "How long shall the events of this vision last concerning the daily sacrifice, the desolating sin which is placed there, the sanctuary, and the trampled host?" He answered him, "For two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary shall be purified."
        While I, Daniel, sought the meaning of the vision I had seen, a manlike figure stood before me, and on the Ulai I heard a human voice that cried out, "Gabriel, explain the vision to this man." When he came near where I was standing, I fell prostrate in terror. But he said to me, "Understand, son of man, that the vision refers to the end time." As he spoke to me, I fell forward in a faint; he touched me and made me stand up. "I will show you," he said, "what is to happen later in the period of wrath; for at the appointed time, there will be an end.
        "The two-horned ram you saw represents the kings of the Medes and Persians. The he-goat is the king of the Greeks, and the great horn on its forehead is the first king. The four that rose in its place when it was broken are four kingdoms that will issue from his nation, but without his strength.

"After their reign,
    when sinners have reached their measure,
There shall arise a king, impudent
    and skilled in intrigue.
He shall be strong and powerful,
    bring about fearful ruin,
    and succeed in his undertaking.
He shall destroy powerful peoples;
    his cunning shall be against the holy ones,
    his treacherous conduct shall succeed.
He shall be proud of heart
    and destroy many by stealth.
But when he rises against the prince of princes,
    he shall be broken without a hand being raised.
The vision of the evenings and the mornings
    is true, as spoken;
Do you, however, keep this vision undisclosed,
    because the days are to be many." [Daniel 8:12-26]

        Is the above prophesy of Daniel about to take place, or will people of faith relegate it to the distant future? See also 1 Kings 18:16-40 concerning Elijah and the 450 prophets of Baal. How different are many of the priests and bishops of all ranks today than the prophets of Baal and the scribes and pharisees spoken of in Matthew 5:13-20?

        Non spiritual people consider daily bread as food for the body –not food for the soul– as the apostles first did. — "They concluded among themselves that it was because they had no bread. When he became aware of this he said to them, 'Why do you conclude that it is because you have no bread? Do you not yet understand or comprehend? Are your hearts hardened?' " [Mark 8:16-17]

John 6:50-51 "this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."

        A legally ordained priest is capable only of fulfilling the legal requirements of office. A non moral priest's inability to consecrate the Most Holy Eucharist (the living Body and Blood of Jesus) would have the effect of invalidating all offerings of priestly people in conjunction with Jesus' one salvific offering made during the Last Supper.  (Note: Such offerings will still be able to be made with the next true reception of Jesus following a moral consecration.)  It also would mean that Jesus does not become spiritually present (in association with moral communicants) in the local neighborhoods in order to discourage the presence and influence of Satan among the populace.

• It may be noted that Jesus did not enter into teaching ministry until He was about 30 years of age. It is probable that He was about 40 years of age before offering eternal sacrifice. It is considered proper that one should be at least 30 years of age before being ordained a priest, and, minimally 40 years of age before the possibility of consecration as a bishop. — Wisdom that is obtained through life experience has great value.

        The only other sacrament that might be considered as questionable concerning the moral position of a priest (bishop) celebrant would be the sacrament of Confirmation. A duality concerning moral condition may be required for validity. This possibility would however require further study, consultation, and reflection.

        In the other sacraments a legal priest fulfills legal requirements and has the moral duty to appropriately council, admonish, instruct and approve or disapprove. The moral requirement is fulfilled by a valid recipient who must receive them from a legally ordained priest with legal standing. A morally ordained priest retains full legal and moral standing unless justly reproved and legally penalized. Unjust penalties are considered legally null.

        The point is being reached in the Church where the only viable alternative for removal of automatically excommunicated ¹ bishops, of various ranks, from office is for people of faith to take matters into their own hands.

Sincerely in Christ,
Father David C. Trosch
Feast of the Visitation
May 31, 2002

¹  Offenses Causing Automatic Excommunication according to the 1983 Code of Canon Law.
²  Levels of Belief and authorities.
³  "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness, " [2 Tim. 3:16] While this reference refers to the Old Testament (that which was then considered Scripture), it includes the New Testament by inference.
inference.
⁴  Masons are forbidden the reception of Holy Communion.
⁵  As in Canon Law where there are pre-existing conditions under which a marriage can be annulled, so also should it be understood that there are pre-existing conditions under which priestly ordination can be nullified (abrogated/invalidated). See each of three earlier paragraphs that begin with a double asterisk ( ** ). In such cases both legal and moral priesthood would be as though it had never existed.

Note:  sections colored in green were added on June 12, 2002.

Commentary Concerning Discipline

        Jesus said to go and teach all nations, make disciples of them. There are various forms of teaching, direct and indirect / one teaches by word and action and through failure to teach or set good example. Teaching also occurs through just discipline or by failing to discipline those who teach or act according to God's will. Teaching occurs when error is presented as truth and the false positions and actions remain uncorrected. One teaches with either of two methods, word or example. What one does and what one fails to do. What one says and what one fails to say. St. Paul admonished when he found error in either those who were his spiritual children or those who were in authority over him. St. Peter gave example in regard to the importance of truth when he brought about the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira.

• Acts 5:1-11  A man named Ananias, however, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property. He retained for himself, with his wife's knowledge, some of the purchase price, took the remainder, and put it at the feet of the apostles. But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart so that you lied to the holy Spirit and retained part of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain yours? And when it was sold, was it not still under your control? Why did you contrive this deed? You have lied not to human beings, but to God." When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last, and great fear came upon all who heard of it. The young men came and wrapped him up, then carried him out and buried him.
          After an interval of about three hours, his wife came in, unaware of what had happened. Peter said to her, "Tell me, did you sell the land for this amount?" She answered, "Yes, for that amount." Then Peter said to her, "Why did you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen, the footsteps of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out." At once, she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men entered they found her dead, so they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.

        The scribes and Pharisees traveled to distance places to make converts and then made them worse sinners than themselves. How much different are the words and deeds of many priests today?

• Matthew 23:15  "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You traverse sea and land to make one convert, and when that happens you make him a child of Gehenna twice as much as yourselves.

        God admonished Moses when he once failed to carefully listen and do exactly what he had been told to do. One should exactly heed the commands of God.

• Exodus 17:6  I will be standing there in front of you on the rock in Horeb. Strike the rock, and the water will flow from it for the people to drink." This Moses did, in the presence of the elders of Israel.
• Numbers 20:7-12  'and the LORD said to Moses, "Take the staff and assemble the community, you and your brother Aaron, and in their presence order the rock to yield its waters. From the rock you shall bring forth water for the community and their livestock to drink." So Moses took the staff from its place before the LORD, as he was ordered. He and Aaron assembled the community in front of the rock, where he said to them, "Listen to me, you rebels! Are we to bring water for you out of this rock?" Then, raising his hand, Moses struck the rock twice with his staff, and water gushed out in abundance for the community and their livestock to drink. But the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Because you were not faithful to me in showing forth my sanctity before the Israelites, you shall not lead this community into the land I will give them." '

        Moses failed to listen to directions as given by the Lord and was punished by being forbidden entry into the promised land, the goal originally promised to Abraham.

        God punished Satan for his deception in the garden of Eden. God destroyed by flood those who acted in opposition to sound reasoning by following humanistic pursuits. God punished at the Tower of Babel those who where trying to achieve a false goal.

• Genesis 11:4  Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the sky, and so make a name for ourselves; otherwise we shall be scattered all over the earth."

        In each of the foregoing situations, and on other occasions, God instructed through examples involving harsh discipline. Jesus frequently admonished those who failed to listen to the unarguable truths that He taught. He promised eternal discipline/punishment to those continuing in unrighteousness. Jesus gave special value to the importance of adherence to valid instructions when He accepted suffering and death rather than to act against the will of God the Father. Jesus prophesied the destruction of the temple of Jerusalem so that we might believe His prophesies concerning damnation for failure to do what is right. We are expected to both learn and put His teachings into practice and also to follow His examples to the limits available within our limited capacities. Harsh temporal discipline should be greatly preferred over eternal damnation.

        Following the examples of God the Father and those of Jesus beneficial discipline must be used, to whatever extent is deemed necessary, for the good of souls on their journey to eternal judgment. The degree of discipline used must be evaluated in light of proper short and long term effects. God's directives and examples flow from His perfect knowledge and wisdom.

• Matthew 16:24  Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me.
• Matthew 28:19  Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,
• Mark 8:33  At this he turned around and, looking at his disciples, rebuked Peter and said, "Get behind me, Satan. You are thinking not as God does, but as human beings do."
• Luke 17:1  He said to his disciples, "Things that cause sin will inevitably occur, but woe to the person through whom they occur.

        Love must be applied for eternal effect rather than being applied to temporal concerns and emotional reactions. False love in harmony with bad example has been the cause of many leaving the Church while retaining those who are complacent with the false teachings and bad examples of legal only priests.

• John 13:35  This is how all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."